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@janeshuff, that’s a great way of putting it. Yes, “the broad sweeps” and then refining in the edits.

I too tend not too worry too much about the overall structure when I’m actually in the thick of writing a first draft but I have found that reading the various books about structure has helped me be aware of the broad sweeps of the shape of a story as I’m thinking it out.

Thanks you both for your feedback.

@squidge — thanks for mentioning those sentences tripped you. I am sometimes unsure when a sentence makes me trip if it’s because it is or just because I am not used to it as English is not my first language.

@jonathan — thanks for spotting that typo, indeed it should be “lager” and not “larger”.

Yeah, I tend to consider matters of formal structure far more in the edit than in the initial draft

I struggle with using this sort of thing as any kind of scaffolding around which to build a story. I can’t even get on with the “Take off your pants” approach, though the book itself contains much of interest and value.

Where I do find it helpful (particularly this one) is when editing, because it can highlight areas that I may have touched on…[Read more]

Lots of interesting stuff here. I’ve never been much of a planner, and am inherently sceptical of the idea of story structure as something fixed and immutable for many of the reasons Libby raises. As structures go, however, I like this one more than most as it’s fixed to the inner life of the main character rather than something that risks being…[Read more]

Sorry – I didn’t actually mean that story structure depicts mental illnesses.

More that psychologists have many different models to describe particular MH conditions. For example, for depression we have the CBT model, the psychoanalytic model, the interpersonal model, the biological model etc. etc. Each model is trying to describe and explain…[Read more]

Thanks for your notes, Raine. They are very helpful and come at a timely moment as I polish the structure of my novel in progress.

A few immediate thoughts which may not stand up to scrutiny. Athelstone wonders about the universality of such frameworks. This has always been my question too. They seem to me too rigid to allow for individual…[Read more]

Also @squidge – The entire universe makes profound and powerful sense when Craig talks!! 😀

@richardb and @squidge – I don’t think there’s anything wrong in not wanting to use models like these! I have a penchance for graphs, which is probably ~60% of why I love it! No – I like the tie-in between internal and external, but it’s definitely not for everyone.

@athelstone, yeah you’re totally right, I agree it’s foolish to think that any…[Read more]

I feel much the same way, Squidge. I never have been able to get on with charts, graphs, grids or any other kind of science-ish analysis. I’m not knocking it for those who find it useful, but my eyes start to glaze over when faced with such stuff, and it seems to place a barrier between me and my creativity (if any). I suppose I might conceivably…[Read more]

For me, “Tasha and she” would flow better as “She and Tasha”. But apart from this I thought it was a very neat story. I particularly liked the moment where she and Jezza are in bed and then suddenly it switches to a physics metaphor. Also when she changes, it’s good to see it from her perspecive, with the beast being an outside entity at…[Read more]

I remember doing these sessions at York…it all seemed to make perfect sense when CMT was explaining it, but I can’t put it into practise. I don’t think I have the kind of logical and structural mind that can break a story down into these kind of segments. Which is annoying, because I know it’s all good stuff and very useful – I just can’t apply…[Read more]

Very nice… There were a couple of points only that tripped me up in the reading:
‘Tasha and she nicked the lipstick’. Didn’t sound right. I wondered about ‘She’d nicked the lipstick when she was with Tasha’, but wasn’t sure how that’d affect your word count.
‘The salty scent of sweaty skin trapped in every pore’. I read this first as the sweaty…[Read more]

So I have been working on this story on and off trying to improve and refine it and I am keen to get some feedback on the latest version of it.

Also it has gone through a change of title and is now called ‘Bad Consequences’

Thanks!

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She had never seen a naked man before. She had glimpsed unclothed parts in isolation at the local…[Read more]

Thanks for this @raine and @philippaeast.
I think there needs to be distinction in the character’s behaviours and internalisations during these phases.

I find this sort of structural analysis interesting – and useful because I’m convinced that there’s a kind of validity to it. So I’m really happy to steal the ideas and use them. What I’m not so sure of is whether something with a “universal” explanatory power – or even scope – is being described. And that goes for the stages of grief as well.…[Read more]

@katemachon glad it makes some sense & hope it’s helpful! 🙂

@philippaeast that’s so interesting. The thing that’s always drawn me to this model is how it really explores the psychology of the character and how that drives their interactions with the external world. BUt I’d never made the comparison between that and things like the stages of…[Read more]