Den of Writers | A place for Stupid Questions | Activity https://www.denofwriters.com/groups/a-place-for-stupid-questoins/ Activity feed for the group, A place for Stupid Questions. Wed, 15 Apr 2026 10:19:15 +0000 https://buddypress.org/?v= en-GB 30 hourly 2 7bcd547f99ded91c70d8995009eb1066 Andrew Bruton replied to the topic The ultimate story/narrative arc in the forum A place for Stupid Questoins https://www.denofwriters.com/groups/a-place-for-stupid-questoins/forum/topic/the-ultimate-story-narrative-arc/#post-8621 Sun, 02 Aug 2020 21:44:04 +0000 Once again thank you to all of you for giving your thoughts on this. I feel immediately guilty as I have close to no experience and not much to offer by way of my own conclusions.

I agree with those of you who say that the shape of your various elements (character arcs, plot lines etc.) needs revision between drafts, and it reminds me that the…[Read more]

]]> 0 9f3a5e628251bbec51a76e8fe46ca193 JaneShuff replied to the topic The ultimate story/narrative arc in the forum A place for Stupid Questoins https://www.denofwriters.com/groups/a-place-for-stupid-questoins/forum/topic/the-ultimate-story-narrative-arc/#post-8570 Tue, 21 Jul 2020 11:51:48 +0000 I think most writers are also great readers and have acquired an instinctive grasp of story structure. That doesn’t mean a bit of conscious knowledge won’t help. But sometimes you have to trust your unconscious.

]]> 0 263ab7099bab4b227f03a2e1bbec8503 RichardB replied to the topic The ultimate story/narrative arc in the forum A place for Stupid Questoins https://www.denofwriters.com/groups/a-place-for-stupid-questoins/forum/topic/the-ultimate-story-narrative-arc/#post-8566 Mon, 20 Jul 2020 18:13:35 +0000 I’m another one whose eyes glaze over at charts, grids, questionnaires and all the rest of it, and find the idea of forcing a story into a set framework very inhibiting. I’d come to suspect that lack of a coherent framework in my writing was one reason I’ve never got on the road to publication, but when I applied the 7 Cs to my last effort it…[Read more]

]]> 0 194150a0412f2cc4f0e40765517a7f4b JaneShuff replied to the topic The ultimate story/narrative arc in the forum A place for Stupid Questoins https://www.denofwriters.com/groups/a-place-for-stupid-questoins/forum/topic/the-ultimate-story-narrative-arc/#post-8564 Mon, 20 Jul 2020 13:29:42 +0000 Ooh what an interesting conversation!

I think it’s quite hard (impossible for me) to tailor a novel according to a detailed framework and I will often start with only the inciting incident, the external problem the MC has to fight/solve and the antagonist forces, whether they’re people or circumstances, then let the story develop a first draft…[Read more]

]]> 0 a2679305529816cee720cbc3724a64cd Sandra replied to the topic The ultimate story/narrative arc in the forum A place for Stupid Questoins https://www.denofwriters.com/groups/a-place-for-stupid-questoins/forum/topic/the-ultimate-story-narrative-arc/#post-8563 Mon, 20 Jul 2020 05:03:20 +0000 Thanks Sea – not heard of the ‘7 Cs’ but it makes perfect sense. Perhaps it is that it can’t be immediately applied from the start, i.e. you (meaning one, and definitely I) have to write quite a lot of scenes involving character and events before the story line appears, after which tweaking into shape can take place.

]]> 0 c4d5b87a82eb9790472e5169435470f5 Seagreen replied to the topic The ultimate story/narrative arc in the forum A place for Stupid Questoins https://www.denofwriters.com/groups/a-place-for-stupid-questoins/forum/topic/the-ultimate-story-narrative-arc/#post-8562 Sun, 19 Jul 2020 22:00:19 +0000 What about ‘Save the Cat’ by Blake Snyder, Sandra? It was one of the recommended reading books when I started Golden Egg.

Regarding plotting, I use the 7 Cs as a framework:
Connection to character – introduction to the character as he is now. Forging a connection i.e. why the reader should care about this person.
Catalyst – Inciting incident.…[Read more]

]]> 1 facecfc33b883b3b9bf215b7d2108e5b Sandra replied to the topic The ultimate story/narrative arc in the forum A place for Stupid Questoins https://www.denofwriters.com/groups/a-place-for-stupid-questoins/forum/topic/the-ultimate-story-narrative-arc/#post-8561 Sun, 19 Jul 2020 08:06:30 +0000 I’m relieved to hear I’m not the only one to have been unable to find a theoretical how-to-plot scheme that works for them, and I really have tried because plotting is certainly what I find hardest, not being a natura story-teller.
Screenwriter Jeremy Sheldon did a brilliant presentation at a Festival of Writing weekend, (2014?) and I’ve been…[Read more]

]]> 0 216ae081ca0b81c9dd845144f333d5f3 Squidge replied to the topic The ultimate story/narrative arc in the forum A place for Stupid Questoins https://www.denofwriters.com/groups/a-place-for-stupid-questoins/forum/topic/the-ultimate-story-narrative-arc/#post-8560 Sat, 18 Jul 2020 15:43:49 +0000 I always sit in on these ‘story arc’ kinds of sessions in the hope I’ll find one that works for me. I never have…

I do have two that help remind me of the essentials though.

The triangle…I learnt it on the self edit course (now run by Jericho Writers) and blogged about it here:…[Read more]

]]> 0 b6ef6439ec111a95ab56722445319b35 Andrew Bruton started the topic The ultimate story/narrative arc in the forum A place for Stupid Questoins https://www.denofwriters.com/groups/a-place-for-stupid-questoins/forum/topic/the-ultimate-story-narrative-arc/ Fri, 17 Jul 2020 21:13:39 +0000 I think this follows on nicely from my previous question about plotting or pantsing…and as we have several ‘plantsers’ I wondered if the classic arc diagrams that exist had any particular ranking in the writing world?

I have seen them in various formats: graphs, ladders, actual arcs…but whilst they are all similar I’m not certain I have yet…[Read more]

]]> 0 39bba936642ddf44028909f202b8b0f6 Andrew Bruton replied to the topic Planning vs Winging it. in the forum A place for Stupid Questoins https://www.denofwriters.com/groups/a-place-for-stupid-questoins/forum/topic/planning-vs-winging-it/#post-8557 Fri, 17 Jul 2020 20:22:14 +0000 Thank ‘insert deity here’ you have wrestled with the same issues I’m facing. It’s wonderful to feel that others have toyed with the various types of writing and that I can see some of my own struggles being described in almost the same way I view them.

I love the ‘plantsing’ because it goes some way to alleviate my fears that I’m caught between…[Read more]

]]> 0 af1a23f16c02d64051402b49a8cde712 Athelstone replied to the topic Planning vs Winging it. in the forum A place for Stupid Questoins https://www.denofwriters.com/groups/a-place-for-stupid-questoins/forum/topic/planning-vs-winging-it/#post-8542 Sat, 11 Jul 2020 20:35:46 +0000 This is about as not stupid a question as I can think of. In essence it’s ‘how do you write’. The supposed divide (classically) is between pantsers and plotters. Plotters, apparently, plan every detail, before they begin. Every chapter and plot point is set out. if a chapter should end with a challenging hook, then it’s there in the plan. Once the…[Read more]

]]> 2 37bd95480efa1993ce159051a3923601 Bella replied to the topic Planning vs Winging it. in the forum A place for Stupid Questoins https://www.denofwriters.com/groups/a-place-for-stupid-questoins/forum/topic/planning-vs-winging-it/#post-8541 Sat, 11 Jul 2020 10:52:41 +0000 In every case I have started with a main character, a beginning, and end and a rough idea of how to get to the end.

However, my characters have a way of bossing me around.

In one novel the guy gets the girl, but as I wrote it became clear that the girl was wrong for him and I then had to write a sequel getting him out of that fix (eventually the…[Read more]

]]> 0 01fe5202dc857e2608e861d62bcf7578 Bella joined the group A place for Stupid Questions https://www.denofwriters.com/activity/p/14837/ Sat, 11 Jul 2020 10:43:44 +0000 0 30abaf87199a53f2ef10c640294ece06 JaneShuff replied to the topic Planning vs Winging it. in the forum A place for Stupid Questoins https://www.denofwriters.com/groups/a-place-for-stupid-questoins/forum/topic/planning-vs-winging-it/#post-8539 Sat, 11 Jul 2020 10:03:39 +0000 The starting point for every book has been different for me and my process has changed as well. I used to plan very little but now I do try and start with the main thrust of the plot clear in my head otherwise I risk wandering too far down interesting paths that lead nowhere. But I need the actual process of writing words and sentences to…[Read more]

]]> 0 e681337daa1f04b0686313155db0dac9 Seagreen replied to the topic Planning vs Winging it. in the forum A place for Stupid Questoins https://www.denofwriters.com/groups/a-place-for-stupid-questoins/forum/topic/planning-vs-winging-it/#post-8537 Sat, 11 Jul 2020 06:55:28 +0000 I start with a name – a character who rattles a stick along the boundaries of my subconscious. Someone who, when I am not looking, will sneak through a gap in the railings and broadcast snippets of conversation to pique my interest. If this character stalks me when I am waling the dog, or when I’m driving, then I might allow him/her free-write…[Read more]

]]> 0 839ee44aefbfd21236dd7dcb69e078a6 Seagreen joined the group A place for Stupid Questions https://www.denofwriters.com/activity/p/14832/ Sat, 11 Jul 2020 06:16:05 +0000 0 f04a37b4bd9c40eba7146a3f5478516d Doug replied to the topic Planning vs Winging it. in the forum A place for Stupid Questoins https://www.denofwriters.com/groups/a-place-for-stupid-questoins/forum/topic/planning-vs-winging-it/#post-8536 Fri, 10 Jul 2020 21:38:09 +0000 I start with the basic premise and the characters, and let the plot unfold as I go. I once learned at a writers’ conference that it makes a lot more sense to outline the whole thing in advance, and I agree with that, but it’s never worked that way for me. I can’t nail the thing down, it wants to take off in another direction once I’m writing it.…[Read more]

]]> 0 44a061291f1d29d4ec6cc163d7298f8c Doug joined the group A place for Stupid Questions https://www.denofwriters.com/activity/p/14830/ Fri, 10 Jul 2020 21:33:49 +0000 0 9832ca6a034138504337946325e56073 Squidge replied to the topic Planning vs Winging it. in the forum A place for Stupid Questoins https://www.denofwriters.com/groups/a-place-for-stupid-questoins/forum/topic/planning-vs-winging-it/#post-8535 Fri, 10 Jul 2020 15:55:36 +0000 I normally have a character and and end in sight when I start. Apart from that, I don’t do much planning at all – my brain simply doesn’t work like that. I’d love to be more organised, but personally it’s stifling. I am full of admiration for peeps who do the whole character file/in depth plot/post-it scene arrangements etc!

I do a lot of…[Read more]

]]> 0 f5697a7ecd224495c2403e7b940da7a9 Sandra replied to the topic Planning vs Winging it. in the forum A place for Stupid Questoins https://www.denofwriters.com/groups/a-place-for-stupid-questoins/forum/topic/planning-vs-winging-it/#post-8534 Thu, 09 Jul 2020 20:43:38 +0000 I used to begin with a conversation between two characters and spread from there. One book I was ~20K in before I knew who would die, and a further 20K before I knew who did it. Even so it turned out to be someone else.

Now that those characters have become so familiar and the twists and turns of their lives compelling enough to become a…[Read more]

]]> 1 51a730eae7226e6e525834e937b875d4 Libby replied to the topic Planning vs Winging it. in the forum A place for Stupid Questoins https://www.denofwriters.com/groups/a-place-for-stupid-questoins/forum/topic/planning-vs-winging-it/#post-8531 Thu, 09 Jul 2020 11:12:00 +0000 I outline before I start by knowing the probable ending or at any rate an ending I’m heading for – it could change though hasn’t done so far. And I know what the midpoint or turning point will be – the tightening up when the main character(s) are stuck with what’s happened and have to deal with it in a focused way. This applies to short fiction as…[Read more]

]]> 0 2abe1bd766c6aa8c61196d6179a511d6 Andrew Bruton started the topic Planning vs Winging it. in the forum A place for Stupid Questoins https://www.denofwriters.com/groups/a-place-for-stupid-questoins/forum/topic/planning-vs-winging-it/ Wed, 08 Jul 2020 19:22:45 +0000 I have two books on writing.

‘On editing’ by Helen Corner-Bryant and ‘Outlining Your Novel’ by K.M. Weiland.

One owns a publishing company and I don’t know who the other is but they write a lot of ‘how to write’ books.

How many of you outline your novel before starting?
How deep do you go?
Do you find it helps guide your writing?

If not…why…[Read more]

]]> 0 1d4cd7bc575a9ac3ce9b27bc0099d2bc Andrew Bruton replied to the topic Where to start? in the forum A place for Stupid Questoins https://www.denofwriters.com/groups/a-place-for-stupid-questoins/forum/topic/where-to-start/#post-8528 Wed, 08 Jul 2020 19:09:45 +0000 That’s fab, I managed to forget my password and have been locked out for ages so it’s lovely to see responses. I will digest as much as I can. I liked the show/tell example, very useful. Thank you.

]]> 0 123cfdc298a97cb744a2b322e30d4d48 Barny joined the group A place for Stupid Questions https://www.denofwriters.com/activity/p/14687/ Sat, 20 Jun 2020 11:33:53 +0000 0 7e7f59b6fdefb5774645c9e07fef5dde Libby replied to the topic Where to start? in the forum A place for Stupid Questoins https://www.denofwriters.com/groups/a-place-for-stupid-questoins/forum/topic/where-to-start/#post-8453 Thu, 18 Jun 2020 12:27:10 +0000 This forum is a great idea, Andrew.

Re show-or-tell, I can’t add much to what’s already been said so well. The only thing I can think of is that sometimes, even with telling, you might want to write quite descriptively. Emma Darwin gives an example in the showing and telling post Jane mentions.

]]> 0 63af657d0cc8962a607ff1ae10579c57 Libby joined the group A place for Stupid Questions https://www.denofwriters.com/activity/p/14683/ Thu, 18 Jun 2020 12:22:05 +0000 0 c92811634449aba708b24de0bda9464a RichardB replied to the topic Where to start? in the forum A place for Stupid Questoins https://www.denofwriters.com/groups/a-place-for-stupid-questoins/forum/topic/where-to-start/#post-8449 Thu, 18 Jun 2020 09:55:00 +0000 Good point, Squidge. It can also help if your think about how you perceive things in real life. When someone becomes angry, for instance, no one tells you ‘this person is angry.’ It’s shown to you as you see their brows come down, as you hear their voice rise.

And for all ‘novices’ reading this, another plug for Emma Darwin’s blog, the finest…[Read more]

]]> 0 1fb7b0e69b5adc1462f01e22e674f2ad Squidge replied to the topic Where to start? in the forum A place for Stupid Questoins https://www.denofwriters.com/groups/a-place-for-stupid-questoins/forum/topic/where-to-start/#post-8448 Thu, 18 Jun 2020 09:00:40 +0000 Wot everyone else said! My rule of thumb to determine when I should show is to put myself in the MC’s shoes and write from their experience – if I can portray something through what they are seeing/hearing/feeling, then it’s probably more of a ‘show’ moment than a ‘tell’ one. For me, it’s linked with people and actions rather than descriptions -…[Read more]

]]> 0 61f7665886798efc708c1a49b5ceb89b Squidge joined the group A place for Stupid Questions https://www.denofwriters.com/activity/p/14677/ Thu, 18 Jun 2020 08:57:40 +0000 0 60fd406d98d21a91bd716743b94b75da Sandra replied to the topic Where to start? in the forum A place for Stupid Questoins https://www.denofwriters.com/groups/a-place-for-stupid-questoins/forum/topic/where-to-start/#post-8447 Thu, 18 Jun 2020 08:29:39 +0000 What a brilliant set of answers and examples to a most important question, I’ve been writing fiction ten years now but still forgetting how this one works. Thaks fir asking it, Andrew. And well done Jane for mentioning Emma’s blog – taught me so much.

]]> 0 ce67757af7f78b3204757bf72e6a4a87 Sandra joined the group A place for Stupid Questions https://www.denofwriters.com/activity/p/14675/ Thu, 18 Jun 2020 08:25:55 +0000 0 58826e3f4b886a53c90f46eb5a54276a Athelstone replied to the topic Where to start? in the forum A place for Stupid Questoins https://www.denofwriters.com/groups/a-place-for-stupid-questoins/forum/topic/where-to-start/#post-8446 Wed, 17 Jun 2020 20:19:42 +0000 Showing and telling is a tricky one and there are many situations where telling something is 100% right and others where showing is 100% right. The reverse is also true.

Jake was acting suspiciously when I met him at the cafe. He looked cagey and only told me about Jane when he was sure nobody else could hear him.

Jake sidled through the cafe…[Read more]

]]> 0 e5e60e6f91aea3a707122030464ea34b JaneShuff replied to the topic Where to start? in the forum A place for Stupid Questoins https://www.denofwriters.com/groups/a-place-for-stupid-questoins/forum/topic/where-to-start/#post-8445 Wed, 17 Jun 2020 17:08:49 +0000 Hi Andrew. The only stupid questions are the ones you don’t ask and it doesn’t matter how ‘far’ along the learning the craft of writing journey you are, there are still more things to find out about and old things to be reminded about.

Emma Darwin’s blog The Itch of Writing has a host of useful blogs if you haven’t come across it already. This…[Read more]

]]> 0 ade5bfd4c161025291e90a774a2b0872 JaneShuff joined the group A place for Stupid Questions https://www.denofwriters.com/activity/p/14672/ Wed, 17 Jun 2020 17:01:29 +0000 0 e39b78125e86068762f4a3bb291f3ddc RichardB joined the group A place for Stupid Questions https://www.denofwriters.com/activity/p/14671/ Wed, 17 Jun 2020 16:16:33 +0000 0 6001213e3ed742ab48d9b3594e628c28 Kate replied to the topic Where to start? in the forum A place for Stupid Questoins https://www.denofwriters.com/groups/a-place-for-stupid-questoins/forum/topic/where-to-start/#post-8443 Wed, 17 Jun 2020 15:06:05 +0000 Hi Andrew

I’ve got lots of that toilet paper with little black writing on it stashed all over the place too. It wasn’t until I began to interact with other writers and receive feedback that I started to learn. There’s a daunting amount of craft to get to grips with and I don’t think you ever stop learning.

As to your question, the way I look at…[Read more]

]]> 0 b1f40ec74b6b4b4f3d97bd411dd7cd52 Jules joined the group A place for Stupid Questions https://www.denofwriters.com/activity/p/14669/ Wed, 17 Jun 2020 14:42:38 +0000 0 22f5a68f451fa5f14470db87ebdfcd15 Athelstone joined the group A place for Stupid Questions https://www.denofwriters.com/activity/p/14668/ Wed, 17 Jun 2020 14:39:17 +0000 0 6be7a1b32f18843b1e93e09f4a500708 Kate joined the group A place for Stupid Questions https://www.denofwriters.com/activity/p/14667/ Wed, 17 Jun 2020 14:02:30 +0000 0 aa2eaf3ecb3eef900d2173c42584e5fb Andrew Wille joined the group A place for Stupid Questions https://www.denofwriters.com/activity/p/14666/ Wed, 17 Jun 2020 13:57:06 +0000 0 baffb95126aa136c8a769b3ad4b887c1 Andrew Bruton started the topic Where to start? in the forum A place for Stupid Questoins https://www.denofwriters.com/groups/a-place-for-stupid-questoins/forum/topic/where-to-start/ Wed, 17 Jun 2020 13:49:55 +0000 I’m not sure if there are any other novices in the Den, but I’m hoping there are those who can help us out if we are sufficient in number. I’m relatively new to the Den and by way of an introduction, I thought I would create this group because it fits my stage in the process.

I have been terribly slow to realise that I need to learn about…[Read more]

]]> 0 9a7aa9e5a7d048f1436387b7ec633de4 Andrew Bruton created the group A place for Stupid Questions https://www.denofwriters.com/activity/p/14664/ Wed, 17 Jun 2020 13:45:01 +0000 0